Offering Free Advice to Wannabes and Newbies - Stag/Alpha Voyeur Only

[Lapster]

I am a 62 year old man who has been involved in the sharing lifestyle for 37 years, with over 200 encounters with no bad experiences. Over the years many close lifelong friendships were established along the way; both platonic and intimate. Experienced on both sides of the equation as part of a few sharing couple relationships and as a solo male 3rd with other couples has given me a more complete understanding of each side. I have helped introduce several firsttimers as their extra in person and 10's of others online. As a Stag/Vixen couple I used creative methods to invite more than 1 vanilla friend to join in a threesome without risking discretion or offending the invitee.

I am offering free advice to newbies and wannabes, of the Stag/Alpha Voyeur subtype, to help them move forward with their partners to then on to spectacular, joyous sexual experiences that avoid many of the mistakes and misunderstandings that can happen during sexually charged encounters. It gives me great pleasure to help those just beginning their journey. Just post here or private message me.

(Disclaimers: I did have one slight exception where as a couple we didn't go through with a well planned threesome involving multiple premeeting and phone call discussions, because the guy wanted to change the rules at the last minute. We politely declined his request to change what we had agreed to beforehand. Also at the end of the first threesome with my wife, I was a complete moron who was minorily irritated that the interaction between my wife and me (eye contact, attention, etc.) didn't live up to my expectations. I fixed it by having our great and understanding friend back over the next 2 nights which were wonderful marathon encounters.)

 

[Lapster]

The Foundations of a Strong Mutual Sharing Relationship

I wanted to create a list of what I believe are the fundamentals of creating a lasting reciprocal sharing relationship and of setting up group encounters that are enjoyable for all involved.

1st - Be honest with yourself.

This is number 1 because you must intensely self evaluate what you want out of your partner(s) and what you aren't comfortable with doing. I recommend for newbies trying to also understand why you like and dislike certain things to give your partner(s) a frame of reference to better understand (i.e. I love eye contact from you honey because it makes me feel involved).

2nd - Don't Take One For the Team

Don't agree to do something you don't want to do. Flexibility and compromise are part of good two-way relationships, but if something feels forced or coerced go with your gut instinct by not doing it. Example: Your female partner "intensely" wants to meet with your steady 3rd threesome guy alone instead of your usual threesome scenario. She really wants to do this and minimizes your emotions of insecurity in the process. If you are feeling insecure about something then go with your gut by saying no, don't be pressured into it. You could also use this as an opportunity for a teaching moment to talk about respecting your partners feelings as well, with a timeout from sharing probably thrown in for effect.

3rd - Both Should Work to Become Self-Aware

Fuzzy phrase, but self-aware means knowing yourself, both strengths and weaknesses, with as little bias as is possible clouding that self-analysis. I have found that asking others the question and then shutting up to listen to their answer is the most productive while also being an extremely painful process. It is hard listening to others describe your fuckups and bad habits. Still you will come out of the exercise stronger and more capable to control your "emotions" which when less restrained transform into "emotional thinking". This type of thinking isn't thinking at all, but rather chaotic ebbs and flows of feelings that lead to poor decision making and interactions with others. Knowing yourself defines your limitations and blindspots, so you can lift the emotional fog, that suppresses logical thinking, so you can manage your life more effectively, which includes your sharing relationship. As a continuation example, "Emotional Thinking' might get you to agree to your partner going solo as in the previous example above, so as not to appear weak and insecure, where Self-Aware thinking wouldn't attach insecurity with weakness or strength in this case, but rather just as a current state of being, an existing boundary, that needs to be respected. Maybe the insecurity is justified and your partner needs to do more relationship work to build trust. How well your logical side is developed determines how well those emotions are controlled (not suppressed) for better decisions and communications.

 

[ilovetofu]

I’m stuck at the “it’ll be an open relationship” “you only want to do this so you can screw other women” stage

 

[firststeps]

I’m stuck at the “it’ll be an open relationship” “you only want to do this so you can screw other women” stage

I think communicating with her is key. Reassure her that you don't want other women and it's about her pleasure.

 

[majorem]

I think reassurance is good but she will probably only really believe you if you can articulate to her why exactly it is arousing for you, to see her get fucked by another man. I think she needs to understand the fantasy from your perspective because the initial thought is probably "why would that turn him on? that makes no sense... he must want to fuck other women"

Once you've explained it though, I think you also need to demonstrate it - start in the bedroom with dirty talk, have her suck your cock while you use a dildo on her, etc. Show her how turned on you get - fuck her and cum in her while having her tell you about how she wants other cocks and then she'll start to get it.

 

[ilovetofu]

I think reassurance is good but she will probably only really believe you if you can articulate to her why exactly it is arousing for you, to see her get fucked by another man. I think she needs to understand the fantasy from your perspective because the initial thought is probably "why would that turn him on? that makes no sense... he must want to fuck other women"

Once you've explained it though, I think you also need to demonstrate it - start in the bedroom with dirty talk, have her suck your cock while you use a dildo on her, etc. Show her how turned on you get - fuck her and cum in her while having her tell you about how she wants other cocks and then she'll start to get it.

I agree with all that but what would be some good sayings to talk dirty?

 

[majorem]

I agree with all that but what would be some good sayings to talk dirty?

So, full disclosure - I'm not that much further than you but I've made some progress in the past year. It seems to happen in jumps, where things stagnate for a while and I sort of give up hope, then suddenly we have some hot night where it feels like significant progress.

The biggest thing that helped with my wife is she likes to have her pussy stretched during sex and so I'll often slip in a couple fingers or a dildo along with my cock. Eventually I started asking her what she was thinking about when she came on my cock and a dildo - asked her if she imagined getting fucked by two cocks. First she laughed and denied that but I think it planted the seed. Then later I'd be fucking her with a dildo or fingers and say shit like "You like to get your pussy filled up don't you? I bet you wish you could get fucked by two cocks instead of a dildo." Stuff like that - eventually I'd ask and she'd admit she was thinking about getting fucked by two cocks. I'd then say stuff like "What if I wanted to watch you"

I think the trick is to do it incrementally, over time. My wife would get uncomfortable if I just kept pushing this one fantasy and she is only most receptive to it when she is very turned on, especially after a couple drinks. So after a good episode, I'll just go back to normal sex for a while. Over time, as you periodically engage in this sort of pre-sharing fantasy sex, you just take it a bit further once she seems ready. I feel like often you need to introduce an idea but not push it, then give her some time to think about it. Like you tell her one time "are you imagining getting fucked by two cocks," then next time you do it, you don't say anything and naturally, there is a good chance she'll be thinking of it herself now that the idea is in her head / you've made her feel it is an okay thing to fantasize about. Then a bit later, you take it a step further, with more detail or whatever.

I posted a thread that kind of details out how things have evolved with my wife so far with "fucked on break-up" title if you want the details.

 

[ilovetofu]

So, full disclosure - I'm not that much further than you but I've made some progress in the past year. It seems to happen in jumps, where things stagnate for a while and I sort of give up hope, then suddenly we have some hot night where it feels like significant progress.

The biggest thing that helped with my wife is she likes to have her pussy stretched during sex and so I'll often slip in a couple fingers or a dildo along with my cock. Eventually I started asking her what she was thinking about when she came on my cock and a dildo - asked her if she imagined getting fucked by two cocks. First she laughed and denied that but I think it planted the seed. Then later I'd be fucking her with a dildo or fingers and say shit like "You like to get your pussy filled up don't you? I bet you wish you could get fucked by two cocks instead of a dildo." Stuff like that - eventually I'd ask and she'd admit she was thinking about getting fucked by two cocks. I'd then say stuff like "What if I wanted to watch you"

I think the trick is to do it incrementally, over time. My wife would get uncomfortable if I just kept pushing this one fantasy and she is only most receptive to it when she is very turned on, especially after a couple drinks. So after a good episode, I'll just go back to normal sex for a while. Over time, as you periodically engage in this sort of pre-sharing fantasy sex, you just take it a bit further once she seems ready. I feel like often you need to introduce an idea but not push it, then give her some time to think about it. Like you tell her one time "are you imagining getting fucked by two cocks," then next time you do it, you don't say anything and naturally, there is a good chance she'll be thinking of it herself now that the idea is in her head / you've made her feel it is an okay thing to fantasize about. Then a bit later, you take it a step further, with more detail or whatever.

I posted a thread that kind of details out how things have evolved with my wife so far with "fucked on break-up" title if you want the details.

I’m noticing the spurts too. She brought it up a couple weeks after our big talk. I didn’t want to push it but told her reassured her that it wasn’t to fuck other women. It seemed to soften her up a bit but nothing really since then.

 

[Lapster]

I’m stuck at the “it’ll be an open relationship” “you only want to do this so you can screw other women” stage

Well I hate to say this, but it sounds like there is a bigger problem if you are telling her you don't want other women yet she doesn't believe you. You have to get that fixed before I would share anyway. In my experience "Trust" is an absolute must for a successful sharing relationship.

 

[spin418]

I think reassurance is good but she will probably only really believe you if you can articulate to her why exactly it is arousing for you, to see her get fucked by another man. I think she needs to understand the fantasy from your perspective because the initial thought is probably "why would that turn him on? that makes no sense... he must want to fuck other women"

Once you've explained it though, I think you also need to demonstrate it - start in the bedroom with dirty talk, have her suck your cock while you use a dildo on her, etc. Show her how turned on you get - fuck her and cum in her while having her tell you about how she wants other cocks and then she'll start to get it.

Yes to this. While men may want their wives to want this, men are the ones who want and initiate this. Certainly some cuckold arrangements begin with a woman’s infidelity. But generally speaking—because obviously there are
exceptions—a woman will be trying it for her man. I think the real work is in conveying, in an earnest way, your very real desire for it. And not just in a horny way during playtime. Also trying to make sense for her of how and why it moves you so profoundly

 

[majorem]

I’m noticing the spurts too. She brought it up a couple weeks after our big talk. I didn’t want to push it but told her reassured her that it wasn’t to fuck other women. It seemed to soften her up a bit but nothing really since then.

Yeah, that seems to be a repeating pattern for us dudes who have this brand of wife haha. When I first honestly told my wife she was confused, cried, accused me of wanting to fuck other women, got angry... then a couple days later she had questions and we had a big talk, after which we fucked and she was super horny lol. Then nothing much happened for a while - for like a year. But I'd make joking references to it, we'd see wife-sharing or cheating in shows and I think it turned her on, etc.

Then later she started getting into the fantasy, mainly in the form of MFM but insisted it was only ever going to be a fantasy... since then things have escalated but in spurts, she doesn't say "its just a fantasy" anymore and I think it could happen in the right situation.

You have to consider, for most of us men, it took a while, like for me years, of thinking about various forms of this fantasy and watching wife-sharing porn to really get into it and get to the point I felt like I was ready to see it happen. When you break it to the wife, she's starting out on year zero and it wasn't even her idea, so its going to take a lot of time to digest and gradually become normalized and incorporated into her fantasy-thinking.

 

[Lapster]

Yes to this. While men may want their wives to want this, men are the ones who want and initiate this. Certainly some cuckold arrangements begin with a woman’s infidelity. But generally speaking—because obviously there are exception—a woman will be trying it for her man. I think the real work is in conveying in an earnest way your desire for it. Not just in a horny way during playtime. Also trying to make sense for her of how and why it moves you so profoundly

Well I personally would not start a sharing relationship based on infidelity. I think trust is the foundation for everything else. None of the women I have shared didn't believe my reasoning when I told them about my desire to share them. They knew I was an honest guy. It also was very obvious to them from my enthusiasm on the subject.

The lifestyle will expose underlying issues that exist in a relationship. Self-discovery is also a key side-effect of the lifestyle as it challenges a persons insecurities and self-esteem. On the positive side it brings about discoveries of what your partner enjoys that might have only come out over a longer period of time if at all.

 

[Lapster]

Yes to this. While men may want their wives to want this, men are the ones who want and initiate this. Certainly some cuckold arrangements begin with a woman’s infidelity. But generally speaking—because obviously there are exception—a woman will be trying it for her man. I think the real work is in conveying in an earnest way your desire for it. Not just in a horny way during playtime. Also trying to make sense for her of how and why it moves you so profoundly

Well I would agree that "men are the ones who want and initiate this" in the vast majority of cases, but I had a partner that was ecstatic that I wanted to share her because she was naturally non-monogamous. She always had a personal conflict of having to "conform" to monogamy because the majority of men hypocritically wanted it that way, at least for the woman, not themselves.

 

[Lapster]

My strong advice to the partner initiating the conversation of getting into the lifestyle (overwhelmingly the guys) is to make sure your significant other is happy with your relationship. Ask if there is anything that they would like to see improved.

I have learned that this part of the conversation is a great bonding exercise that demonstrates to your partner how a sharing relationship can open up a dialog for strengthening your connection to each other. This step, IMO, is critical to getting a positive result. Do not skip it or rush past it. The lifestyle should be about both of you not just you individually. If you earnestly make any changes your partner has asked for it has been my experience that all areas of your lives will benefit, even areas not directly realated to the lifestyle.

If the communication between you is done in a deliberate, vulnerable and honest way you both should come away from these talks energized and positive. You should feel closer to each other. If either or both of you feel frustrated or negative after your discussions you have more work to do on your relationship before considering the lifestyle. Proceed with caution because the lifestyle can wreck a poor relationship. I have seen it firsthand. This most often happens because one party selfishly "forces" or "coerces" the other, which is just bringing to the forefront other deeper personal issues that need fixing in a relationship regardless of the lifestyle.

Hopefully these suggestions aren't too much of a downer, because that is not my intent. I wholeheartedly believe that sharing relationships, done properly, are the most fulfilling because it challenges the biased assumptions that we all have about ourselves, uncovering areas that need improvement. The lifestyle will put your insecurities and ego to the test. If you do the work on yourselves beforehand the lifestyle will reward you both with numerous, many surprisingly unexpected, wonderful benefits, but you have to do the work.

 

[majorem]

Uhhh, I hate to disagree but I think a negative initial reaction is almost guaranteed with many, if not most women, regardless of the status of your relationship.

To many women the idea of sharing is bizarre and counter-intuitive. If you're happy with them and happy in the marriage, why would you want to do this? They can't imagine wanting to share you, so how could you want to share them? The degree to which they listen to and immediately believe your explanation at that point, if they even let you get that far, is largely down to their personality and life-experience.

My wife is very jealous and has also said that she is very happy with the relationship and so doesn't want to do anything to potential upset that. So when I initially conveyed this fantasy, she was shocked, didn't understand how I could want that, thought maybe I wasn't jealous because I had lost interest in her (despite constantly wanting sex)... I mean, you can't expect a calm, rational response to something that is typically a surprising and very emotionally charged revelation.

I think you have to just expect this is may occur, depending on your wife's personality and realize it will take time for her to digest what you've said and that it will take multiple conversations to fully explain your perspective and for her to reach an understanding with it. It may than later also take sex-talk and fantasy play in the bedroom to demonstrate your arousal response.

 

[Lapster]

I agree with your points, so I don't think we are in disagreement. Truthfully, some, if not many, relationships are not meant for the lifestyle. There are valid personal reasons that a partner wouldn't want to be involved in a sharing relationship; from religious, to safety to insecurities and a bunch of others. The conversation, actually more than likely multiple conversations, I suggested having with your partner, don't guarantee a positive yes answer, but rather the best chance for a yes. The conversations will though lay bare unhealthy aspects of that particular relationship visavie incongruent values and the willingness of one partner or both to give the other what they desire.

My point was that you have to seriously evaluate and work on your relationship before running headlong into having others join you intimately, if you want to avoid disasters. People interested in the lifestyle also, IMO, need to consider the logistics and risks of how to successfully manage a lifestyle relationship, but that is a topic for another day.

 

[majorem]

My point was that you have to seriously evaluate and work on your relationship before running headlong into having others join you intimately, if you want to avoid disasters. People interested in the lifestyle also, IMO, need to consider the logistics and risks of how to successfully manage a lifestyle relationship, but that is a topic for another day.

Yeah, definitely true. Just also saying, different women are going to have a different reaction even if the underlying relationship is strong - maybe even more so because of it.

I dated a girl for a long time who was rather passive and submissive. She wasn't jealous or very sexually driven but she would have agreed to whatever I wanted her to do. At one point she in college she begged me not to break up with her and said she didn't care if I had sex with other women. I'm sure she would have agreed to have sex with another man to please me, even if she had no desire for it. It may have seemed like a strong relationship to outsiders as we never fought but that was because she basically let me do whatever I wanted and it ultimately caused me to lose respect for her.

My wife is the total opposite - strong willed, very sexual. It took years of dating for us to sort of polish each other down to what is now a very happy and functional relationship built on mutual respect. She is also very jealous, so it was fairly natural for her to react the way she did about sharing, since she just could not understand where I was coming from initially as she would never agree to share me. She wondered if I really loved her as much as she loved me - if I wanted to sleep with other women. After the initial drama, it took a couple more calm conversations to explain and assure her that it had nothing to do with how much I loved her or sleeping with other women. If anything, I was only able to think about doing it because of how much I loved and trusted her.

We've gotten over that and come a long ways but I think she is very aware of the potential risks, as you say and that is perhaps the last stumbling block to work through - or not. Ultimately, I think you have to want this enough to roll the dice to some degree, as there is always going to be some risk, as much as you do to mitigate it.

Partially, my desire for this is the total opposite of what she initially imagined - its to help me not sleep with other women lol... I am at a point where I feel like I need some kind of sexual adventurism in my life and just more sex, before I get old. Since she doesn't want me playing with other women, then at least sharing her would provide some sexual excitement and perhaps boost her interest in sex. I mean, honestly, our sex life isn't bad by normal standards, I just need more.

I think this would be good for her too but she doesn't need it, so the value proposition of sharing is less compelling.

Interested to hear your perspective on logistics and risks.

 

[Lapster]

Yeah, definitely true. Just also saying, different women are going to have a different reaction even if the underlying relationship is strong - maybe even more so because of it.

I dated a girl for a long time who was rather passive and submissive. She wasn't jealous or very sexually driven but she would have agreed to whatever I wanted her to do. At one point she in college she begged me not to break up with her and said she didn't care if I had sex with other women. I'm sure she would have agreed to have sex with another man to please me, even if she had no desire for it. It may have seemed like a strong relationship to outsiders as we never fought but that was because she basically let me do whatever I wanted and it ultimately caused me to lose respect for her.

My wife is the total opposite - strong willed, very sexual. It took years of dating for us to sort of polish each other down to what is now a very happy and functional relationship built on mutual respect. She is also very jealous, so it was fairly natural for her to react the way she did about sharing, since she just could not understand where I was coming from initially as she would never agree to share me. She wondered if I really loved her as much as she loved me - if I wanted to sleep with other women. After the initial drama, it took a couple more calm conversations to explain and assure her that it had nothing to do with how much I loved her or sleeping with other women. If anything, I was only able to think about doing it because of how much I loved and trusted her.

We've gotten over that and come a long ways but I think she is very aware of the potential risks, as you say and that is perhaps the last stumbling block to work through - or not. Ultimately, I think you have to want this enough to roll the dice to some degree, as there is always going to be some risk, as much as you do to mitigate it.

Partially, my desire for this is the total opposite of what she initially imagined - its to help me not sleep with other women lol... I am at a point where I feel like I need some kind of sexual adventurism in my life and just more sex, before I get old. Since she doesn't want me playing with other women, then at least sharing her would provide some sexual excitement and perhaps boost her interest in sex. I mean, honestly, our sex life isn't bad by normal standards, I just need more.

I think this would be good for her too but she doesn't need it, so the value proposition of sharing is less compelling.

I am sorry to hear about your circumstances because it sounds as if you have communicated your desires to her in a thoughtful deferential way. Based on how well you write, you have conveyed a deep understanding of the issues, I'm comfortable saying your wife is the one who is being obstinate. It sounds as if she has lost or has a diminished sex drive, so now she performs "booty duty" to meet her idea of what your minimum requirements for sex are to keep you pacified. Bottom-line is she appears to be satisfied drifting off into old age with a limited sexual life or maybe she would be okay without a sexual life all together. I don't have enough information to confidently form an opinion on that aspect, but from what you have said she seems to have a limited interest in sex. You seem to have communicated directly, in an intelligent reflective way, your needs to her. I will add, that It is a blow to a man's self-esteem, even if he isn't at fault, to have the woman in his life only having sex with him out of obligation rather than a burning desire to be intimate with him. It is a tough spot to be in when you love someone.

My apologizes for this declaration, but these are fundamental core differences that indicate underlying serious issues in the marriage that need to be tackled so that you both can be happy. She may have a medical condition that is effecting her libido which could possibly be corrected through medication or a physical health program. Whatever is causing the decreased desire, physical or mental, she needs to address it. Hopefully she will ask herself, and this isn't a threat but just the reality of the limited options available to mutually solve this problem, how jealous will she be if you divorce because then you will be sleeping with other women and she could be sleeping with other men or not have a partner in her life at all. Sounds like extra partners to me, just not together or in a way she would probably want.

As far as the risks go, it may be cliché, but there are always risks in life. Better to take some risks by living than to not and be dead. The risks of the lifestyle can be mitigated sufficiently to the point of comparative irrelevance, especially as you get older. The risks are more impactful for younger couples too than say an older guy like me, but with good forethought, areas of concern such as; relationship issues, health, safety and life goals priorities can be minimized to levels we accept all the time for many other activities. These risks just can't be ignored as if they somehow don't exist, which was one of the main points of my previous post.

I don't have enough background on your specifics to know what all the roadblocks are for your wife. However, the benefits to both of you, but especially her, will go far beyond just sexual if she chooses to find a way to reach common ground with you. Based on my personal experience and observations, being part of a sharing relationship, if done with thoughtful care, creates a much closer, more loving, and accepting dynamic in a relationship. I can't recommend it highly enough to couples who have healthy attitudes on cooperation and want their partners to be happy. I wish you good luck.

Best

 

[majorem]

She may have a medical condition that is effecting her libido which could possibly be corrected through medication or a physical health program. Whatever is causing the decreased desire, physical or mental, she needs to address it. Hopefully she will ask herself, and this isn't a threat but just the reality of the limited options available to mutually solve this problem, how jealous will she be if you divorce because then you will be sleeping with other women and she could be sleeping with other men or not have a partner in her life at all. Sounds like extra partners to me, just not together or in a way she would probably want.

Haha, well, there is definitely a condition effecting her libido and its 3 kids, plus anxiety over some parent health issues. A few years ago when we had an infant and 3yo sex frequency hit an all-time low, understandably, but it's gotten better. Stress is a huge factor and I hope that will continue to ease up as kids get older. With the youngest in school 3 days a week, she now at least goes to the gym regularly, which has helped a lot with mood and body-confidence.

That said, we had kids late; I'm 45, she's 40 and I feel like I need to "make hay while the sun shines." Sometimes I feel sort of unreasonable as I have friends who go months without sex, while for me I start to go nuts if it its been much longer than a week. We probably average 2-3 times per month now but it used to be like 5 times per week before kids. I also don't really like to push her for sex - her wanting it is a big part of the turn-on for me.

She does get horny still but it usually requires an evening out with me or her girlfriends. On a couple occasions she has come home and said things like "get your clothes off - I need to have sex now!" Those episodes make me wonder if it's just getting away from kids and being able to unwind... or if its being out, having men hit on her (which she sometimes tells me about) to stimulate some sexual excitement.

A couple weeks ago, after a few drinks, I got her to reveal more of her activities in the months we broke up prior to getting married. This was like 10 years ago but over time she keeps slowly admitting to more and given how she is, I always knew there was more. That night we went home and she was very horny, her pussy was sloppy wet and she ended up cumming as I had her admit and then repeat to me how her pussy was wet from telling me how she fucked other men. She was insatiable and after I came in her, she got me hard again and rode me to another orgasm... it was extremely hot. I love it when she gets like that and I guess I am looking for ways to make that happen more than once or twice per year. I don't expect or even want every time to be like that, some chill romantic sex is good sometimes. I just miss seeing her like that, which used to happen a lot back in the day, and would love to see a bit more of it.

As far as the risks go, it may be cliché, but there are always risks in life. Better to take some risks by living than to not and be dead. The risks of the lifestyle can be mitigated sufficiently to the point of comparative irrelevance, especially as you get older. The risks are more impactful for younger couples too than say an older guy like me, but with good forethought, areas of concern such as; relationship issues, health, safety and life goals priorities can be minimized to levels we accept all the time for many other activities. These risks just can't be ignored as if they somehow don't exist, which was one of the main points of my previous post.

I don't have enough background on your specifics to know what all the roadblocks are for your wife. However, the benefits to both of you, but especially her, will go far beyond just sexual if she chooses to find a way to reach common ground with you. Based on my personal experience and observations, being part of a sharing relationship, if done with thoughtful care, creates a much closer, more loving, and accepting dynamic in a relationship. I can't recommend it highly enough to couples who have healthy attitudes on cooperation and want their partners to be happy. I wish you good luck.

Yeah, I fully agree - there are distinct risks but there is also risk in not doing it, as you say, since I feel like it leaves me unsatisfied and more open to temptations. Plus, yeah, taking some risks to live.

We've finally had a more sincere talk about it precipitated by the night of "my pussy is wet from telling you I fucked other men." She initially said she was drunk and didn't remember - then when I recounted the events for her, she sheepishly said "that's very naughty" and "maybe I do remember some of it." After there was no way to deny that it really did turn her on a lot. However, she said she was afraid of crossing a line that you can't uncross and things getting out of control. Since she loved me and wanted to be good for me but "it was hard for a girl like her to be good." If I'm being honest, it is also a fear I have, as she is the type who, once into something, will often get obsessive about it and I do not like to feel left out or secondary.

She also is hung up on it being "not a normal thing to do" and potentially unhealthy. She gets weirded out by any talk of it that is too direct. I do not think she would ever agree to find a man online for a meeting, go to a swingers club or anything as deliberate and planned as that. So I think we are progressing and it may happen in a few years but the first time probably needs to be some perfect situation where it can occur naturally. She does often get talkative with men when we are out at bars. She is not shy. So I think if we were out and met someone that she liked and we had a hotel or whatever... Hard to make that happen though at this point. The other way I see it working for her is she meets a guy at a bar without me and sometimes happens... but I'm not sure I would like that. It would no doubt turn me on but I think I would not like a scenario that felt kind of like soft-cheating.

I want to have a shared experience, ideally an MFM type scenario or at least something more controlled, like she goes up to a hotel room while I wait at the bar. I am not looking to be a stay-at-home cuck watching kids while she dates other dudes. So there is some difficulty in trying to work out how things might progress, since she seems to enjoy the idea but I think feels anxious, guilty, and weird talking objectively about it.

 

[Lapster]

Haha, well, there is definitely a condition effecting her libido and its 3 kids, plus anxiety over some parent health issues. A few years ago when we had an infant and 3yo sex frequency hit an all-time low, understandably, but it's gotten better. Stress is a huge factor and I hope that will continue to ease up as kids get older. With the youngest in school 3 days a week, she now at least goes to the gym regularly, which has helped a lot with mood and body-confidence.

That said, we had kids late; I'm 45, she's 40 and I feel like I need to "make hay while the sun shines." Sometimes I feel sort of unreasonable as I have friends who go months without sex, while for me I start to go nuts if it its been much longer than a week. We probably average 2-3 times per month now but it used to be like 5 times per week before kids. I also don't really like to push her for sex - her wanting it is a big part of the turn-on for me.

She does get horny still but it usually requires an evening out with me or her girlfriends. On a couple occasions she has come and said things like "get your clothes off - I need to have sex now!" Those episodes make me wonder if it's just getting away from kids and being able to unwind... or if its being out, having men hit on her (which she sometimes tells me about) to stimulate some sexual excitement.

A couple weeks ago, after a few drinks, I got her to reveal more of her activities in the months we broke up prior to getting married. This was like 10 years ago but over time she keeps slowly admitting to more and given how she is, I always knew there was more. That night we went home and she was very horny, her pussy was sloppy wet and she ended up cumming as I had her admit and then repeat to me how her pussy was wet from telling me how she fucked other men. She was insatiable and after I came in her, she got me hard again and rode me to another orgasm... it was extremely hot. I love it when she gets like that and I guess I am looking for ways to make that happen more than once or twice per year. I don't expect or even want every time to be like that, some chill romantic sex is good sometimes. I just miss seeing her like that, which used to happen a lot back in the day, and would love to see a bit more of it.



Yeah, I fully agree - there are distinct risks but there is also risk in not doing it, as you say, since I feel like it leaves me unsatisfied and more open to temptations. Plus, yeah, taking some risks to live.

We've finally had a more sincere talk about it precipitated by the night of "my pussy is wet from telling you I fucked other men." She initially said she was drunk and didn't remember - then when I recounted the events for her, she sheepishly said "that's very naughty" and "maybe I do remember some of it." After there was no way to deny that it really did turn her on a lot. However, she said she was afraid of crossing a line that you can't uncross and things getting out of control. Since she loved me and wanted to be good for me but "it was hard for a girl like her to be good." If I'm being honest, it is also a fear I have, as she is the type who, once into something, will often get obsessive about it and I do not like to feel left out or secondary.

She also is hung up on it being "not a normal thing to do" and potentially unhealthy. She gets weirded out by any talk of it that is too direct. I do not think she would ever agree to find a man online for a meeting, go to a swingers club or anything as deliberate and planned as that. So I think we are progressing and it may happen in a few years but the first time probably needs to be some perfect situation where it can occur naturally. She does often get talkative with men when we are out at bars. She is not shy. So I think if we were out and met someone that she liked and we had a hotel or whatever... Hard to make that happen though at this point. The other way I see it working for her is she meets a guy at a bar without me and sometimes happens... but I'm not sure I would like that. It would no doubt turn me on but I think I would not like a scenario that felt kind of like soft-cheating.

I want to have a shared experience, ideally an MFM type scenario or at least something more controlled, like she goes up to a hotel room while I wait at the bar. I am not looking to be a stay-at-home cuck watching kids while she dates other dudes. So there is some difficulty in trying to work out how things might progress, since she seems to enjoy the idea but I think feels anxious, guilty, and weird talking objectively about it.

Based on this post from you my appraisal of the situation is significantly different from my previous post. It sounds like you have a better relationship than I had previously concluded. Obviously there is something going on though because there is a mismatch in sexual desire and frequency between the two of you.

Picking the right guy is the most critical piece of the puzzle, once you have gotten to yes. From what you have said, I would start very "relationship safe" with a low-risk guy that you trust and who isn't looking to find a woman for a relationship. I would also insist that it be a MFM scenario and that you plan it together rather than just letting it happen with her finding a guy. It may sound mechanical, but it is especially important with a first-time encounter that you establish boundaries and ground rules between you two and the guy. These ground rules should extend to all interactions with other men, not just the first one. One I have had is all communications with the other guy are open to both of us, not just her. You should be the only one communicating with him, especially in the beginning, until you get a better feeling for the guy. Another rule we had was no initiation of sex by the guy. He could let us know his schedule and availability, but we would reach out to him when we wanted to get together. You aren't giving her a blank check, so to speak, but creating a "new norm" of what cheating constitutes. There should still be clear defined boundaries that you both agree to, rather just winging it. Despite the unspontaneous nature that planning creates, the encounter will probably still be exciting and has a higher probability of success if you plan. You could also start with "soft" encounters, with maybe the guy just watching or other types of activities that don't involve intercourse.

Getting to yes from her for the first encounter is more than likely going to take gentle persistence and patience along with creativity, which it sounds like you are already doing with sex talk, etc. She has the desire from your descriptions. If you are not doing it already I would be asking her if there is anyone she is attracted to, that you both know, that she could imagine being in a threesome with, so that you can incorporate him in your sex talk, even if he wouldn't eventually be your first threesome guy.

It is a good sign though that she is concerned about your feelings and the relationship, along with her impression that somehow it is "cheating". These are all things that will help you with your emotions, which most newbie guys seem to underestimate. This isn't a criticism just an observation along with my own personal experience.