Advice for unwilling cuckold

[wormwood]

I'm curious to know, you say that she is on this site and had at least one lover from here. Does she know you're here? Is there a possibility that she's seen this post?

 

[edcooke]

I'm curious to know, you say that she is on this site and had at least one lover from here. Does she know you're here? Is there a possibility that she's seen this post?

She insisted that I look at the site, in an attempt to convince me to participate in the "cuckold lifestyle." Without my knowledge she had apparently opened an account here IN MY NAME several months ago. Before I looked through some of the cuckolding message-strings, to try to show good faith consideration of what she wanted, I changed the password for the account, but I suppose she could have opened another account once she couldn't get into "mine." I doubt it, though, because she would not have wanted to be portrayed as I have done (accurately), and would have responded to some of what I've said. Certainly in what is likely the most favorable demographic for her position I have not gotten messages that seem sympathetic to what she did last night.

 

[edcooke]

Let me again express my thanks to those on this site that tried to help me navigate through my very distressing situation. I was accorded more respect by those of you than by my wife.

I decided to leave my home today and told my wife so, noting my doubts that she loves me, and my certainty that she has no respect for me (if she ever did). She cried and pleaded, tried to initiate a blow job and even promised to try to curb what she called her "natural desires" for the sake of our marriage, but I can't believe what she says any more and learned yesterday that she's a talented actress. I cried as well, and that was no act. I also told her that my lawyer will prepare a proposal to buy her out of our business and asked her to consider that, and finding another job, as a show of good faith. If she does that I told her that I would leave the door open for her to go to professional counseling with me to try to save our marriage; that was weakness, I confess, but I truly do still love her, think I can forgive her if she truly wants to be forgiven, and cannot give up hope that professional help would get us through this. I also assured her that I won't share with our kids the reasons for our separation though, incidentally, I learned that Bryan knows one of our sons through his workplace (so heaven knows what our son knows about this).

 

[Lynnandhubby]

I’d have to agree with what others have said I’m afraid. She’s already made her mind up what she wants and she isn’t taking your feelings into account in the slightest. The dinner meeting and the aftermath was clearly a sham to force you to accept her agenda. She may well love you but to orchestrate a scenario like that was selfish and hurtful.
If as it seems this really isn’t for you, you have only two options. 1. You turn a blind eye and let her have her fun on the side but take no part in it. There’s nothing new it that, it’s always gone on but only you know if you could accept that. 2. Sadly you have to go your separate ways. If there isn’t a way forward that is acceptable to you both, that’s the only choice you have Im sorry to say.
Lynn.

 

[Bowlerlb]

I think this is an example of a marriage that could have benefited from the cuckold lifestyle. By your own admission you were unable to satisfy her sexually due to PE. If it had worked, another man could have satisfied her and you would have always had the pleasure of re-claiming her. Unfortunately it was handled incorrectly by both of you and it never had a chance to really be considered. She was clearly in favour of a cuckold relationship, but didnt approach you correctly and you were clearly strongly against, and really not in the right frame of mind to even consider it.
Lots of lessons here.

 

[NeedaDomInMI]

I’d have to agree with what others have said I’m afraid. She’s already made her mind up what she wants and she isn’t taking your feelings into account in the slightest. The dinner meeting and the aftermath was clearly a sham to force you to accept her agenda. She may well love you but to orchestrate a scenario like that was selfish and hurtful.
If as it seems this really isn’t for you, you have only two options. 1. You turn a blind eye and let her have her fun on the side but take no part in it. There’s nothing new it that, it’s always gone on but only you know if you could accept that. 2. Sadly you have to go your separate ways. If there isn’t a way forward that is acceptable to you both, that’s the only choice you have Im sorry to say.
Lynn.

I concur that the dinner meeting was designed with humiliation in mind. The fact that she had already lined up ‘Bryan’ shows that. She sounds incredibly selfish!

 

[Avery99us]

Let me again express my thanks to those on this site that tried to help me navigate through my very distressing situation. I was accorded more respect by those of you than by my wife.

I decided to leave my home today and told my wife so, noting my doubts that she loves me, and my certainty that she has no respect for me (if she ever did). She cried and pleaded, tried to initiate a blow job and even promised to try to curb what she called her "natural desires" for the sake of our marriage, but I can't believe what she says any more and learned yesterday that she's a talented actress. I cried as well, and that was no act. I also told her that my lawyer will prepare a proposal to buy her out of our business and asked her to consider that, and finding another job, as a show of good faith. If she does that I told her that I would leave the door open for her to go to professional counseling with me to try to save our marriage; that was weakness, I confess, but I truly do still love her, think I can forgive her if she truly wants to be forgiven, and cannot give up hope that professional help would get us through this. I also assured her that I won't share with our kids the reasons for our separation though, incidentally, I learned that Bryan knows one of our sons through his workplace (so heaven knows what our son knows about this).

So sorry for you.

 

[NeedaDomInMI]

…

Before I could respond, dinner was served, but immediately after the waiter left again I asked the one question that I had previously decided I needed to ask: were all of our kids mine? She cried and said she wished I hadn't felt that I had to ask that because it made it sound like I thought she was constantly screwing other men over our entire marriage, but that yes she had had tests done to verify that they were my kids before deciding not to terminate each pregnancy. That led to a back-and-forth in which I pointed out that that meant she was in fact having affairs even before our first kid was born, which also led to more crying, but she admitted it. In turn, I started to cry when I admitted my inability to bring her to orgasm without oral sex.

So, to me that opens a question: did she ever terminate a pregnancy from someone else while you were married?

Maybe that’s a moot point now.

I am so sorry for your situation, my friend.

 

[edcooke]

Let me again express my thanks to those on this site that tried to help me navigate through my very distressing situation. I was accorded more respect by those of you than by my wife.

I decided to leave my home today and told my wife so, noting my doubts that she loves me, and my certainty that she has no respect for me (if she ever did). She cried and pleaded, tried to initiate a blow job and even promised to try to curb what she called her "natural desires" for the sake of our marriage, but I can't believe what she says any more and learned yesterday that she's a talented actress. I cried as well, and that was no act. I also told her that my lawyer will prepare a proposal to buy her out of our business and asked her to consider that, and finding another job, as a show of good faith. If she does that I told her that I would leave the door open for her to go to professional counseling with me to try to save our marriage; that was weakness, I confess, but I truly do still love her, think I can forgive her if she truly wants to be forgiven, and cannot give up hope that professional help would get us through this. I also assured her that I won't share with our kids the reasons for our separation though, incidentally, I learned that Bryan knows one of our sons through his workplace (so heaven knows what our son knows about this).

So, to me that opens a question: did she ever terminate a pregnancy from someone else while you were married?

Maybe that’s a moot point now.

I am so sorry for your situation, my friend.

What she said about her pregnancies did strike me as very "cold" at the time, and is just another respect in which her "true" self may differ radically from who she pretended to be. If she had come to me and said she was pregnant with another man's child, what would I have done? Would I have put my embarrassment about her infidelity ahead of the lives of the children? Who is the person with whom I've spent most of my life and why am I still so desperate to remain with her? Is it just for my sexual gratification? I am trying not to ask those sorts of questions because the answers might not reflect well on me as well as her. I probably don't need to say that I love the people that my children are, and the idea that she could have aborted them to avoid embarrassing me is too horrible to consider.

 

[Bowlerlb]

I think it is normal to start thinking about what may have happened and all sorts of things pop into the head. You talk about your sexual gratification. It is likely that it is her lack of sexual gratification for many years that has pushed her to this. She must have been so needing and wanting a good fucking for years. Some women have a very strong sex drive and need to be satisfied regularly. Imagine her frustration.
Some years ago I was approached by a married woman, and they had agreed to a cuckold lifestyle. I was with them for 17 years after that. He was usually present and took to his role quickly and easily. The first few months of our relationship she was insatiable from so many years of being denied sexual gratification. He agreed to be caged as initially he would spurt as soon as he saw me penetrate her. This worked to stop him ejaculating early and he would then get very aroused and liked to help and be involved. He quickly become very skilled at giving oral pleasures and loved to clean up after each encounter.
If you are unable to reconnect with your wife how do you see your future sex life, knowing that you have a problem with early/prem ejaculation. Will any future partner be satisfied, or like your wife will she need to seek a service outside the relationship. As a woman she will need and deserve the pleasure of a decent cock penetrating and ejaculating deep inside her. This is what a Bull provides.

 

[harrysicario]

What she said about her pregnancies did strike me as very "cold" at the time, and is just another respect in which her "true" self may differ radically from who she pretended to be. If she had come to me and said she was pregnant with another man's child, what would I have done? Would I have put my embarrassment about her infidelity ahead of the lives of the children? Who is the person with whom I've spent most of my life and why am I still so desperate to remain with her? Is it just for my sexual gratification? I am trying not to ask those sorts of questions because the answers might not reflect well on me as well as her. I probably don't need to say that I love the people that my children are, and the idea that she could have aborted them to avoid embarrassing me is too horrible to consider.

well it certainly needs both of your efforts if you want to make it work.............wish you the best........you need help/advice.........hit me up

 

[harrysicario]

I don’t think you are going to get a very balanced response on here I’m afraid as this is a site for people already in the lifestyle or wanting to get into it. Although there are a number of people here who got into it through cheating.
It’s always difficult when the two people in a relationship want very different things especially when that has changed over time and there is no simple solution as every relationship is different.
It sounds to me as though your wife is now at a point in her life where the kids have grown and flown and having been the dutiful wife and mother, she now wants to fulfil her own wants and needs.
If she’s flatly told you that she’s not going to stop having sex with other men then you need to decide how you are going to deal with that because the reality is that’s she’s going to continue with or without your approval.
If you really can’t cope with that, it would be best for both of you to split, as hard as that might be. The alternative is growing resentment and bitterness that will destroy the relationship anyway.

But there are other options if you can handle them. I cheated on my first husband constantly throughout our marriage, he never said anything and neither did I. However, it was never a great relationship (for lots of reasons) so that’s maybe not the best solution.
The other option is that you give cuckolding a go. If the only other choice is splitting up, then what is there to lose? If it turns out not to be for you, then you still have the option of parting amicably. And you never know, if you do try it, you might find it turns you both on watching her getting fucked. Its worked for me and James for over two decades.

Whatever you decide, there going to have to be some frank discussions between you and your wife, as you both need to be happy with whatever direction you take and that might involve some compromises on both your parts.

Hope you find a way through this.
Lynn x

good advice

 

[Lynnandhubby]

I think it is normal to start thinking about what may have happened and all sorts of things pop into the head. You talk about your sexual gratification. It is likely that it is her lack of sexual gratification for many years that has pushed her to this. She must have been so needing and wanting a good fucking for years. Some women have a very strong sex drive and need to be satisfied regularly. Imagine her frustration.
Some years ago I was approached by a married woman, and they had agreed to a cuckold lifestyle. I was with them for 17 years after that. He was usually present and took to his role quickly and easily. The first few months of our relationship she was insatiable from so many years of being denied sexual gratification. He agreed to be caged as initially he would spurt as soon as he saw me penetrate her. This worked to stop him ejaculating early and he would then get very aroused and liked to help and be involved. He quickly become very skilled at giving oral pleasures and loved to clean up after each encounter.
If you are unable to reconnect with your wife how do you see your future sex life, knowing that you have a problem with early/prem ejaculation. Will any future partner be satisfied, or like your wife will she need to seek a service outside the relationship. As a woman she will need and deserve the pleasure of a decent cock penetrating and ejaculating deep inside her. This is what a Bull provides.

Well said. That’s precisely why I cheated throughout my first marriage. A woman (or a man) who isn’t getting what they need sexually will look elsewhere. It’s not uncommon for couples to have mismatched sex drives but if that isn’t addressed it will cause issues.
Lynn x

 

[Jeanswatcher]

To those of you who have offered insight over the last week on dealing with the upheaval in my life caused by my wife's affairs, thank you. While I had hoped there was some magic bullet that I would find to recover a happy marriage, I suppose that I should have known that every such relationship, like every person, is different and that I'll have to figure out my own solution.

It is the early morning after a long discussion with my wife of 30 years, and I am left alone to decide the remaining course of my life. I was both apprehensive and hopeful before that meeting. The last 8-9 hours have brought me to the pinnacle of happiness and to utter despair. I am in my own home, as is my wife, but nothing is the same as it was. I don't see how I can ever be happy again. Maybe things will look brighter in the morning.

My wife's scheduled dinner and discussion began very hopefully yesterday evening. I knew she would have an agenda. Her role at the company that we started includes long-range planning and marketing, and she has conducted many meetings internally and with customers over the years. She is an expert at leading discussions and manipulating people to achieve the results that she wants. She usually uses powerPoint decks, but tonight she apparently didn't even need notes to manipulate me. She carefully and skillfully led me to the slaughter.

Our first hour was spent having cocktails and talking about everything we have in common: our kids, grandson and friends, our business, our recent vacations, how we met and the many trials and triumphs of our years together. I was entirely disarmed by her intelligence, charm and warmth, not to mention her makeup, clothes and bearing, all the things that attracted me to her and maintained my love for her since we first met.

We ordered dinner, and when the waiter left us alone she moved the discussion closer to the subject, starting with a reaffirmation of her love for me, her commitment to me and the reasons that she said she continues to consider me her only true lover and soul mate. She then moved directly to discuss her affairs, apologizing for her lies, her deceptions and the pain she knew they had caused me. She said she had no excuse for what she had done, though she also mentioned being sexually frustrated by my "performance" (I have always had to bring her to orgasm orally because I get so excited by her that I ejaculate too quickly). Following this, she told me how she wanted us to move forward and promised, first, that there would be no repetition of what happened with the last guy she had sex with (he secretly videotaped some of their activities and sent me the video, with a note saying "Thanks for the use of your wife", when she refused to fuck him again - she said a second time), and second that she intends to be completely open and honest with me going forward, no more lies or secret sexual dalliances, but that if I had any questions about her affairs I had to ask them right now.

Before I could respond, dinner was served, but immediately after the waiter left again I asked the one question that I had previously decided I needed to ask: were all of our kids mine? She cried and said she wished I hadn't felt that I had to ask that because it made it sound like I thought she was constantly screwing other men over our entire marriage, but that yes she had had tests done to verify that they were my kids before deciding not to terminate each pregnancy. That led to a back-and-forth in which I pointed out that that meant she was in fact having affairs even before our first kid was born, which also led to more crying, but she admitted it. In turn, I started to cry when I admitted my inability to bring her to orgasm without oral sex.

Probably as part of the emotional break-down, I decided not to ask for more details about her affairs and simply ask for one additional promise (which I considered minimal but all I could expect immediately), that she would not have sex with another man before she and I discussed it. She got up, sat on my lap, hugged me, said "I promise" and kissed me, to which I replied that I completely forgave her and would never mention her affairs again. That in turn led to further tears, and kisses, from both of us.

As we finished dinner and were about to leave, we hugged again and she whispered to me that she was going to take me home and give me the best blow job any man ever got. This was particularly meaningful for us because she had always refused to give me oral sex, saying she considered it "dirty", which I learned from the video I got a month ago was a complete misrepresentation of her real feelings on blow jobs. Maybe this should have been a "red flag" for me, but it got me very excited. I left our private room, hand-in-hand with my wife, thinking that this chapter in our lives was over and that I had never loved her more than I did at that minute.

On the way out of the restaurant, walking through the bar, one of the men called her name. She turned and said hello and introduced me to him (Bryan), and after a brief conversation we walked out. In what I thought was a foolish thing to blurt out, but in reaction to recent events, I asked her whether she had had sex with Bryan. Her response was an angry "so, after all we just went through, you are going to continue to think that every man we come across has screwed me? - but NO!" She also pointed out that the man was probably younger than our oldest child. I took my cue from that to apologize, we cried and hugged again and drove home. On the drive, she answered a text on her phone and told me it was her mom.

When we got home, as soon as we closed the front door she jumped into my arms and we kissed passionately for minutes. When our lips parted, she removed my sport coat, tie and shirt, she licked my nipples, took off my belt and unzipped my pants. As she started to pull down my pants I asked whether we should go upstairs to bed. She looked at her watch and said "you're ruining the moment; I want you to get hard before I suck you off and swallow your cum". I was getting excited and finished removing my pants. She again looked at her watch and started to rub my penis with her hand. Once I was fully erect she backed up, turned on a jazz station on Alexa, looked at her watch and started to remove her coat as though beginning to strip. It was at that moment that the front door opened and Bryan walked in.

The next five minutes are a blur in my mind. It was like some bawdy comedy, with me as the laughing-stock. I was stunned, but quickly started to try to cover up, particularly my erection. I couldn't immediately find my pants, and grabbed a throw blanket from the couch. In the meantime, Bryan had "checked out" my erection, walked over to my wife and kissed her. My wife told me that she had invited Bryan over and that this was my opportunity to discuss with her whether Bryan could fuck her. She told Bryan that she was going to blow me first but that unless I could persuade her otherwise she would then fuck him. Finally, she told me that she hoped that I would watch Bryan fuck her. I of course realized that my wife had orchestrated the whole thing and that it was her way of insisting on her original resolution to get me to agree to a "cuckold lifestyle", using the excitement of watching her have sex (and now the blow job). I was humiliated by my nakedness and couldn't say anything. After about a minute my wife said something to the effect of we should all go up to the bedroom because I hadn't tried to object. By then I started to yell all kinds of things, I can't remember exactly what. She yelled back and finally said "let's go" to Bryan. She took his hand and led him upstairs. When she got to the top of the stairs, she yelled down "hurry up or we will get started without you." I took that opportunity to get my pants on, but didn't leave the living room.

After about 5 minutes Bryan came downstairs, naked and now with his own erection. He came up to me, put his hand on my shoulder and said something like "hey bro, I really don't mean to hurt you with all this, and I only came over here because your wife told me you were OK with her fucking other guys, but as you can see we're already started and I can't just leave now so why don't you come up and join us; it is going to be fun for everybody". I swatted his hand off of me and said something like "listen BRO, if you think I'd get kicks by watching some skinny-dicked kid poke my wife you're crazy". He became very angry and I thought he was going to hit me, but instead he responded along the lines of "OK old man, I may have a smaller dick than you, but at least I can use it for more than a couple of minutes, and if you don't come upstairs you are going to miss the chance to watch your wife have more orgasms in one night than you've seen her have her entire life because I'm going to pound the shit out of her all night, and probably tomorrow morning" (obviously my wife had told him that I'm not a violent person and that I have had difficulty ejaculating too early). Bryan went back upstairs and I didn't know what to do.

Almost immediately I heard banging from the bedroom (they had not closed the door). It sounded like Bryan was making good on his promise to "pound" my wife and, when I walked to the base of the stairs, I heard her say "not so hard" to him. The noise died down a bit and I turned on the TV. After about another five minutes I started to hear moaning and thought about going upstairs but couldn't bring myself to do that. Instead I came down here to my office in my basement.

That's really all there is to tell. As I said, I just feel despair now.

Well, ummm.....

I have read your post and felt that was pretty simular to the conversion i had with my wife all those years ago and we got over it, from what you wrote i felt things went well, giving you time to think and decide.

Then the arrival of "Bryan" is this not the same man she had become angry at you asking if she had, had sex with him?

So basically everything she said at Dinner she then undermined soon after at what was supposed to be your private time together, showing her lack of knowledge about a males sexual desires and feelings to boot by wanting to drain your balls then for you to watch her being fucked.

So she has laid her cards on the table, what you do i really have absolutely no idea.

 

[harrysicario]

Well said. That’s precisely why I cheated throughout my first marriage. A woman (or a man) who isn’t getting what they need sexually will look elsewhere. It’s not uncommon for couples to have mismatched sex drives but if that isn’t addressed it will cause issues.
Lynn x

true

 

[harrysicario]

you should have a serious talk with her........talk about all the scenarios and situations.........if you go down cuckolding path........how and what your role will be........will it undermine your roles as a husband or not...........whether you should be stag.........the boundaries........

have a escape door for yourself.........if it doesnt work out.........and you dont get your end of the deal.........

 

[Jfiverpointfive]

We married at 18, by the time she was 26 it was obvious that I just wasn't up to scratch sexualy I told her that she could get what she wanted with someone else if she wanted but to just be honest and tell me what she was doing, I'm not interested was the reply . Move on a few years, she's just over 30 and a guy hits on her In the factory she works in , she tells me about it saying she turned him down, I repeated my offer if she wanted to go, two days later she told me she was going out with him for a drink, she came home half pissed and fucked making it clear to me that she was going again no matter what, she made the rules and I was not to be involved in anyway what so ever, later when I knew I was getting sloppy seconds when she had been out one night nieve me realised I had had it before and it was before she was fucking with my knowledge so she had been getting what she needed anyway, nothing would have stopped her, she just got it out In the open to make life better for both of us, we are both 75 now she still has a interest on the side but doesn't fuck him much now ,it helped our marriage a lot as it made her a more contented women and a better wife.
I hope this helps you a little it worked for us.

Try toys. See what she likes and buy those. Can open up new avenues. My wife and I do this and have no interest in involving a third party.

 

[edcooke]

Well, ummm.....

I have read your post and felt that was pretty simular to the conversion i had with my wife all those years ago and we got over it, from what you wrote i felt things went well, giving you time to think and decide.

Then the arrival of "Bryan" is this not the same man she had become angry at you asking if she had, had sex with him?

So basically everything she said at Dinner she then undermined soon after at what was supposed to be your private time together, showing her lack of knowledge about a males sexual desires and feelings to boot by wanting to drain your balls then for you to watch her being fucked.

So she has laid her cards on the table, what you do i really have absolutely no idea.

I've got one clarification and a somewhat different take on what she was doing Saturday night. As of the time that we left the restaurant she probably had not had sex with Bryan (so technically not a lie, just like her promise to discuss it before she had sex with anyone after the restaurant), but clearly she had planned on having him meet me at the restaurant and come to our house after we returned from dinner. In fact: (1) I think that he was the person she texted to while we were in the car going home, probably telling him what time to arrive at our house. (2) I think she kept checking her watch while behaving seductively after we got home so that I would be naked and erect in the living room when Bryan arrived, thus putting me in an embarrassing state, and (3) I think she wanted me to be so aroused when he arrived that I would willingly participate in her romp with Bryan (and, to be honest, when she took him upstairs part of me really wanted to follow if for no other reason than to get the blow job that she had promised - instead, while that kid was in my bed screwing my wife all night, I ended up in the basement telling the story of my evening and masturbating). As I mentioned, she is an expert manipulator in her job and I think she simply used my sexual desire to turn me into "her cuckold" as opposed to A cuckold in the traditional sense.
Whether my reconstruction of what she was doing is right or not, as someone else here observed I had to retain my self-respect and leave her (at least temporarily), and I also had to consider the impact that what is going on could have on our kids, our business investors and our employees. I've now made it clear to her that I want to buy her out of our business; that's the logical part of what I'm doing because she has clearly let her libido lead her into outrageous conduct. (What kind of married woman would do what she did Saturday night, to her husband and with a young man who knows her son? It is reckless thinking that doesn't work in business). I've left the door ajar for our marriage (if she will go to counseling with me), which may or may not be right thing to have done, but that's the emotional part of what I decided. Despite how she has treated me I still love her, as I have essentially for my entire adult life. Though I no longer think that she loves me, I can't give up hope that, if I am willing to forgive her, she may come to her senses.

 

[Jfiverpointfive]

Let me again express my thanks to those on this site that tried to help me navigate through my very distressing situation. I was accorded more respect by those of you than by my wife.

I decided to leave my home today and told my wife so, noting my doubts that she loves me, and my certainty that she has no respect for me (if she ever did). She cried and pleaded, tried to initiate a blow job and even promised to try to curb what she called her "natural desires" for the sake of our marriage, but I can't believe what she says any more and learned yesterday that she's a talented actress. I cried as well, and that was no act. I also told her that my lawyer will prepare a proposal to buy her out of our business and asked her to consider that, and finding another job, as a show of good faith. If she does that I told her that I would leave the door open for her to go to professional counseling with me to try to save our marriage; that was weakness, I confess, but I truly do still love her, think I can forgive her if she truly wants to be forgiven, and cannot give up hope that professional help would get us through this. I also assured her that I won't share with our kids the reasons for our separation though, incidentally, I learned that Bryan knows one of our sons through his workplace (so heaven knows what our son knows about this).

In all honesty she went about it the wrong way and really this is not even the heart of cuckoldry. Mine and my wife’s relationship was great before. We had a long talk kind of night and it led to me opening up about this stuff. We’ve taken it slow and we fell in love even more. Our marriage and sex life improved and we had no complaints before. But I couldn’t imagine indulging in this stuff if me and my wife weren’t solid first. This is kinda the whole point. Sounds like she cheated. I hope the best for you and your family.

 

[robbiewillsucku]

Guys if you get a divorce then she is going to fuck other cocks and you will NOT get any pussy from her so focus on pleasing her and licking her pussy clean after she has fucked other cocks.