Girlfriend >Wife > Girlfriend to another man> Vixen> Hotwife > ?

[Phun Times 727]

I guess the main thing is that she knows/is aware that you are somewhat frustrated/disappointed with the current situation. I'm not trying to imply that your are upset or mad because I don't feel like that's what you are saying. You just want more involvement or participation.

To me, the most important thing is that she doesn't simply dismiss your feelings or try to minimize them. She has to know that she has had an amazing experience so far. Yes, you supported that, and yes you were patient in allowing her the freedom to explore in her own way and at her own rate. Because of your willingness to allow her the freedom she has a new outlook on the lifestyle determined by her own experience.

At some point a wife/gf must become aware of the differences in the experiences she has and the experiences her husband/bf has. She must realize that as a female she has considerably more opportunity given her freedom and support from her significant other. This is where the rubber meets road! A smart wife/gf realizes the inequity and does something about it. A smart wife realizes that if she likes her situation she will do what needs to be done to keep it going. Doing nothing, or dismissing the inequity, or declaring "This is what you wanted!" shows how out of touch a wife/gf can be. How can she honestly state, "This is what you wanted!" if she doesn't confirm it to be true?

The whole hot wife/cuckold scenario functions is there is a couple. If there is no couple then there is no exploring the dynamic and how it heightens the experience. If a couple acts unilaterally, independent from input or consequence then it isn't really a shared experience. Statements like, "That's his problem!", or "That's what he said he wanted!" are declarations of denied responsibility. It's my opinion that some wives/gfs figure out too late that they ignored their husbands/bfs for too long and what was intended to be shared experience became individual ones with distinctly different results.

Well said and very true. Bear in mind we do see a therapist still all throughout this process and if you were wondering -yes the therapist thinks we are crazy at this point. No matter what she advises it seems we do something else. I swear she is on the verge of dismissing us as we just seem to always blow her mind yet we keep it together. The one thing we have done well is maintain open communication between us and we also have set up a framework of "limits" and safe words. My wife is very aware that I was really stepping outside my comfort zone in order to let her try something the last few months. The situation itself was not a problem for me but my exclusion was. If I had been active with her during that time frame I really think I would have been fine with it going on for some time as it was much easier for me than the previous boyfriend arrangement where she was gone half the time on weekend stay overs etc. This was very clean and concise. He is married and has full support of his wife to have his extra marital sex but only sex. There were no dates, no dinners, no late nights. Almost always it was on a Tuesday or Thursday early evening/right after work and she was done and home by 7:30 or 8PM. But that is done. My wife appreciates what I supported and knows we need the intimacy between us and some shared experiences.

It is such a odd balance as we started this based on my kink and fetish and she was looking to support me and somehow over time , and I say time with a degree of trepidation as I never really saw it going beyond a one time thing. But here we are with an ongoing lifestyle change and I am making some concessions in order to continue with her interests now. I guess it has some give and take.

One thing I have concluded is any candidates should be married and just looking for one dimension vs a single guy who wants dates. So if recruiting a unicorn wasn't challenging enough now I need a married unicorn open to join another couple but have a spouse that is OK with him doing so AND my wife needs to be attracted to him as well. At least he doesn't need to be an astronaut or Olympic medalist lol.

 

[coastalkid]

Well said and very true. Bear in mind we do see a therapist still all throughout this process and if you were wondering -yes the therapist thinks we are crazy at this point. No matter what she advises it seems we do something else. I swear she is on the verge of dismissing us as we just seem to always blow her mind yet we keep it together. The one thing we have done well is maintain open communication between us and we also have set up a framework of "limits" and safe words. My wife is very aware that I was really stepping outside my comfort zone in order to let her try something the last few months. The situation itself was not a problem for me but my exclusion was. If I had been active with her during that time frame I really think I would have been fine with it going on for some time as it was much easier for me than the previous boyfriend arrangement where she was gone half the time on weekend stay overs etc. This was very clean and concise. He is married and has full support of his wife to have his extra marital sex but only sex. There were no dates, no dinners, no late nights. Almost always it was on a Tuesday or Thursday early evening/right after work and she was done and home by 7:30 or 8PM. But that is done. My wife appreciates what I supported and knows we need the intimacy between us and some shared experiences.

It is such a odd balance as we started this based on my kink and fetish and she was looking to support me and somehow over time , and I say time with a degree of trepidation as I never really saw it going beyond a one time thing. But here we are with an ongoing lifestyle change and I am making some concessions in order to continue with her interests now. I guess it has some give and take.

One thing I have concluded is any candidates should be married and just looking for one dimension vs a single guy who wants dates. So if recruiting a unicorn wasn't challenging enough now I need a married unicorn open to join another couple but have a spouse that is OK with him doing so AND my wife needs to be attracted to him as well. At least he doesn't need to be an astronaut or Olympic medalist lol.

I'm sure you recall from the start I also thought you were crazy so maybe I should be a therapist myself. Over time I understood that you were just very willing to make concessions to get to a place that you could have the kind of fun you had envisioned. What sets you apart from the crazy is the framework of "limits and safe words" and the communication. I do wonder if that communication is sometimes restrained from the standpoint that in order to have your wife truly comfortable, you may (or may not) have held back on a reaction or response out of a fear of her sensing stress and toning down her enthusiasm. I can see how that could be a delicate balance.

The other thing at play that fascinates me is the whole ,"It started with MY kink and it evolved into something slightly (or significantly) different." The huge area of complexity is in the third party (or parties). You and your wife have history and even though she may act uncharacteristically in the course of events, you still know and understand her better than a relative stranger. The third party has their own influences and dynamic that add the "unknown" element. That "unknown" can be exciting and welcome or difficult and demanding.

Finding the "unicorn" is the thing. It will be a challenge that will be accomplished much more easily with TWO people earnestly searching. It's nice that you've been given the freedom to search. From my observation you have struggled with exclusion. If you are solely responsible for the success of that search than your wife excludes herself. It would mean a lot to you if you witnessed your wife actively searching for a solution that would satisfy you also.

I apologize if I sound overly protective of you, too conservative, too egalitarian. The "give and take" you mentioned is deeply ingrained in people. Things like, "You chose the restaurant last time. It's my turn to choose." or, "It's my turn to choose which movie we will watch!" are tiny insignificant daily examples of how deeply this notion of equality runs.

I say that because I truly believe that BOTH husband and wife deserve a satisfying experience. They should be able to easily express that they are thankful for the great time they had. Instantly, they should also hope that their partner also had a great time and if that wasn't the case immediately seek ways to change. At some point, any aware and sensitive person will realize when they've had it good, clearly much better than their partner and that actually diminishes their own pleasure. It seems like the evolution should work towards the point when the shared experience is the ultimate goal. Having individual success is probably a necessary component. It shouldn't be the stopping place. It should be part of acquiring the skill set to advance to the "shared" experience.

THE most fascinating topic I want to read about is always about the wives that KNOW they have it good and what they do. There's no denying there is some level of "power exchange". What wives/gfs do with that power and freedom is of great consequence. Success and failure lean heavily towards the actions of an empowered wife/gf. In effect it lays bare the deepest and most secret character traits that may have been repressed. By default, the relationships that make are successful responsibly use their power and freedom. Those that don't can not avoid disappointment and worse.

Thanks for making me think! I'm on your side in this thing and hoping the best for you!

 

[Phun Times 727]

I'm sure you recall from the start I also thought you were crazy so maybe I should be a therapist myself. Over time I understood that you were just very willing to make concessions to get to a place that you could have the kind of fun you had envisioned. What sets you apart from the crazy is the framework of "limits and safe words" and the communication. I do wonder if that communication is sometimes restrained from the standpoint that in order to have your wife truly comfortable, you may (or may not) have held back on a reaction or response out of a fear of her sensing stress and toning down her enthusiasm. I can see how that could be a delicate balance.

The other thing at play that fascinates me is the whole ,"It started with MY kink and it evolved into something slightly (or significantly) different." The huge area of complexity is in the third party (or parties). You and your wife have history and even though she may act uncharacteristically in the course of events, you still know and understand her better than a relative stranger. The third party has their own influences and dynamic that add the "unknown" element. That "unknown" can be exciting and welcome or difficult and demanding.

Finding the "unicorn" is the thing. It will be a challenge that will be accomplished much more easily with TWO people earnestly searching. It's nice that you've been given the freedom to search. From my observation you have struggled with exclusion. If you are solely responsible for the success of that search than your wife excludes herself. It would mean a lot to you if you witnessed your wife actively searching for a solution that would satisfy you also.

I apologize if I sound overly protective of you, too conservative, too egalitarian. The "give and take" you mentioned is deeply ingrained in people. Things like, "You chose the restaurant last time. It's my turn to choose." or, "It's my turn to choose which movie we will watch!" are tiny insignificant daily examples of how deeply this notion of equality runs.

I say that because I truly believe that BOTH husband and wife deserve a satisfying experience. They should be able to easily express that they are thankful for the great time they had. Instantly, they should also hope that their partner also had a great time and if that wasn't the case immediately seek ways to change. At some point, any aware and sensitive person will realize when they've had it good, clearly much better than their partner and that actually diminishes their own pleasure. It seems like the evolution should work towards the point when the shared experience is the ultimate goal. Having individual success is probably a necessary component. It shouldn't be the stopping place. It should be part of acquiring the skill set to advance to the "shared" experience.

THE most fascinating topic I want to read about is always about the wives that KNOW they have it good and what they do. There's no denying there is some level of "power exchange". What wives/gfs do with that power and freedom is of great consequence. Success and failure lean heavily towards the actions of an empowered wife/gf. In effect it lays bare the deepest and most secret character traits that may have been repressed. By default, the relationships that make are successful responsibly use their power and freedom. Those that don't can not avoid disappointment and worse.

Thanks for making me think! I'm on your side in this thing and hoping the best for you!

Some safe assumptions: I am a little crazy. I have a younger wife I believe to be attractive and it seems others do as well and rather than keep her for myself I have made the debatable decision to share her with other men

My wife agreed to entertain my idea. Albeit with what was likely the amount of pushback she felt she needed to display without me simply giving up on the idea, but no more that that. So was a hotwife lurking in there all along? I' can't say for certain but what I do know is I always felt there was a more sexual creature in there. At times it seemed I could coax it closer to the surface but always felt I was only seeing some of it. I still don't think we have gotten there BTW.

Sharing your wife is by nature a highly unbalanced exchange. While you may achieve certain sexual interest/pleasure from it the woman by definition is the one having sanctioned sex outside of the marriage, whether it is in your presence or completely autonomous. More partners for her and same or less for you. I have never had issue with this, again I didn't shoot for this arrangement but I never fought against it. I may not have had sex with other partners but I have had some truly erotic encounters that I had never done in my life before now. Closest I ever came to a threesome was in high school with my gf at the time where we were in bed in a cabin in the winter (unheated) and her friend laid under the covers with us and they tricked me , gf gave me a handjob under the covers but somehow midway the hand got switched. Not a big epic threesome but closest I ever got.

My wife does know that everything is tilted in her favor. I really came to understand this when she revealed to our friend/neighbor what we had been up to. Although I was ticked at first I spent a long time discussing/explaining with our friend (female) what we were up to from my perspective since she had gotten my wife's perspective and I was curious to see if any overlap or discrepancy existed. The one thing my friend did say is how excited my wife is to be able to do the things she does. Mind you my neighbor nods her head in acceptance but I can see she questions what i get out of it and why the hell I would ever suggest or agree to it. We hang out quite a bit, with and without my wife so I feel like she has been a good neutral party/sounding board. The question she always asks me is if I am going to do the same thing and she is blown away that I have no intentions of it. The one thing I do like hearing is how my wife has expressed to her how she appreciates what I have done and how she is very excited about the freedom she has. So of course I had to drill as to how it even came up. As you might expect they were out (neighbor is single) and a couple of guys approached them. Being a good friend she was dismissive and somehow my wife must have let it out that she was "married but available".

It is a tightrope I walk. I would say one of the most challenging aspects has been a nearly all consuming lifestyle change. This isn't like you bought the wife a new dildo you break out on a Friday night nut live your life as normal all the rest of the time, its there all the time.

 

[coastalkid]

I am on your side! I guess the main take away is still that you are free to seek out a situation that involves you more.

The question that your neighbor asked is EXTREMELY normal. Everyone (especially people that aren't in the lifestyle) wants to know, "What do you get out of the deal?" It's a real question! It's part of our culture to want equity and we are preoccupied with it, whether it's race, gender or age, you name it, there is an equal rights movement for it.

In order for you to answer her question convincingly you have to be honest with yourself first, as in, what do I want and what do I not want. You should instantly know what you get out of it! I believe both people should know instantly what the other gets out the arrangement. If either of you aren't getting what you want is a compromise truly success?

I imagine your conversation with neighbor going, "Well when we started it we had certain intentions and along the way it turned into something that was not quite what I wanted or expected!" That would burst into a multitude of other questions from the neighbor. It wouldn't come across as the experience of a lifetime. Sure, you could say you've had some wild times and then you'd throw in "BUT......."

I like you. I like reading your posts. I've checked out your pictures and if I'm right, and that was you when I saw you, you're a young good looking guy. Even with those things going for you, your chances of finding a suitable situation are significantly less than your wife seeking her own situation. That disparity will only widen over time unless your wife joins your effort.

She's made her conversion over to being a hot wife, 100% success! I would hope that your wife would be super motivated to see you get what you really want and crave. Her active and visible effort would speak volumes about her gratitude and boost your connection to her! I'll ask again, is it really a success if only one of you has the "Earth shattering, mind blowing, lifetime experience"?

Please don't take anything I write personal. They are only observations. I try to be as realistic as possible. Remember, I am on your side!

 

[Phun Times 727]

I am on your side! I guess the main take away is still that you are free to seek out a situation that involves you more.

The question that your neighbor asked is EXTREMELY normal. Everyone (especially people that aren't in the lifestyle) wants to know, "What do you get out of the deal?" It's a real question! It's part of our culture to want equity and we are preoccupied with it, whether it's race, gender or age, you name it, there is an equal rights movement for it.

In order for you to answer her question convincingly you have to be honest with yourself first, as in, what do I want and what do I not want. You should instantly know what you get out of it! I believe both people should know instantly what the other gets out the arrangement. If either of you aren't getting what you want is a compromise truly success?

I imagine your conversation with neighbor going, "Well when we started it we had certain intentions and along the way it turned into something that was not quite what I wanted or expected!" That would burst into a multitude of other questions from the neighbor. It wouldn't come across as the experience of a lifetime. Sure, you could say you've had some wild times and then you'd throw in "BUT......."

I like you. I like reading your posts. I've checked out your pictures and if I'm right, and that was you when I saw you, you're a young good looking guy. Even with those things going for you, your chances of finding a suitable situation are significantly less than your wife seeking her own situation. That disparity will only widen over time unless your wife joins your effort.

She's made her conversion over to being a hot wife, 100% success! I would hope that your wife would be super motivated to see you get what you really want and crave. Her active and visible effort would speak volumes about her gratitude and boost your connection to her! I'll ask again, is it really a success if only one of you has the "Earth shattering, mind blowing, lifetime experience"?

Please don't take anything I write personal. They are only observations. I try to be as realistic as possible. Remember, I am on your side!

I get that and appreciate it. The movement thing was funny as I was reading it I was thinking there is a movement for everything except straight white males and then add the subset of sharing their wives. I suspect it will be some time before we get our own parade lol.

My neighbor friend has been our friend for a number of years now so she knew us before the hotwife thing. She also hung out with me (with others present) on the weekends my wife was gone to Orlando to visit the boyfriend. She was unaware at the time or I am sure she would have chewed my ear off with questions.

So the question of what I get out of it. I have always had this fantasy of seeing my wife with two men and even though I am still hoping to see that someday I came to the conclusion that I really like to watch her have sex. I often watch old videos of us from years ago going at it when I masturbate. I think the light bulb moment for me came early on with the boyfriend, We had all been together several times by this point but I brought her over there and we all assumed it was going to be the three of us again and I instructed them just to do what they do when I am not there. I think that was a turning point, at least for me. Previously we had MFM but I was either about to join, in the act, or post act waiting to get back in the game. The first few times we were very awkward, in fact the very first time we didn't even know where to start. I actually left the room and let them naturally get into things before joining to relieve the incredible tension in the room. So it was not just a focus on watching initially. The day I asked them to just go forward with just the two of them was to be able to just watch. I'm not saying it was a turning point for her as well at that exact moment but it could have been and if not probably not too long afterward that she would lean into it for me to watch knowing that I was enjoying it. It went from her kind of stepping through the act with me in the room but her being somewhat uneasy about what was happening/was I really cool with it/would something be a bridge too far to realizing I was enjoying watching. She would incorporate things like making sure she could make eye contact in certain positions. Things like doggy style with her facing me wile she orgasmed or kissing me were for me. Extending her hand to hold while in missionary was for me. Filming her was for me. Yes, she was getting more but she gave me as much as she could out of it.

That was of course the boyfriend and it eventually became a problem and she ended it. What came after seemed to be a complete turn around. Its also a part my neighbor finds fascinating. The bull was not a relationship, in fact he is married with a hall pass. There were no weekends away or frequent texting Things were very scheduled and not much contact outside of the encounters so for me it was emotionally less draining and from a relationship perspective I had my wife back all the time except a couple hours a week. The downside for me was he was not into MFM or being watched and no filming, so not so great for me. On her side there were pluses across the board and I agreed that if she was into it I would figure a way through it. Again it was only a couple hours here and there and she would come home and go over her visit with me which provided me with enough. No, I was not directly having one on one sex with her nor MFM but that aspect we made up for through masturbation and a complete reinvestment into the relationship itself. Crazy as it sounds we were firing on all cylinders minus sex, plenty of other intimacy though and I got through it but not looking to do that same thing again.

As far as moving forward I am totally OK with it just being us for now. With that said we are still sending each other dating profiles, half the time joking as there i some crazy $hit out there but in order to see the crazy profiles it means we are both reading through them. I thought I was in a rush to quickly find the perfect scenario. I'm really not. If my wife feels she wants to entertain something I am OK with it but maybe just something short term and fun.

 

[coastalkid]

Hey! I'm jealous of your experience, even with the mixed results! You've already gotten to experience more than most AND you're still together! It's completely possible that things could turn in your favor, as in your ideal situation. It's as likely as any other possible outcome, leaning towards happening.

I truly appreciate your open and honest posts! I don't get the impression that you are emphasizing the good or the bad. It feels a lot like reporting on a work in progress. I know your desire and imagination will carry on if going forward means being just the two of you. You seem to have dealt with the previous difficult situations, I think you can temper your thoughts if necessary.

Your wife on the other hand is less predictable in my own impression. You've had a sip from faucet and your wife has had a drink from the fire hose! Her overall perspective has to have changed, even if only in regard to sex. Processing the entire dynamic to the present is a lot. If she can easily stop or continue or compromise if necessary says a lot about how she controls her desire as opposed to how her desire controls her.

I really believe that you will be rewarded for your patience. I don't mean expressly by your wife (although it could). I think so much of it depends on how your wife looks a the greater picture. She has learned from her special friends. She has seen other examples. She has had a "regular bull". She's participated in your denial. That's a lot of relatively new influence in her life. She doesn't have a real wealth of knowledge and experience here. I shudder saying she knows enough to be dangerous.

A lot depends on where you and your wife go with this. Your wife may have stronger or different feelings about things now.

 

[Phun Times 727]

Hey! I'm jealous of your experience, even with the mixed results! You've already gotten to experience more than most AND you're still together! It's completely possible that things could turn in your favor, as in your ideal situation. It's as likely as any other possible outcome, leaning towards happening.

I truly appreciate your open and honest posts! I don't get the impression that you are emphasizing the good or the bad. It feels a lot like reporting on a work in progress. I know your desire and imagination will carry on if going forward means being just the two of you. You seem to have dealt with the previous difficult situations, I think you can temper your thoughts if necessary.

Your wife on the other hand is less predictable in my own impression. You've had a sip from faucet and your wife has had a drink from the fire hose! Her overall perspective has to have changed, even if only in regard to sex. Processing the entire dynamic to the present is a lot. If she can easily stop or continue or compromise if necessary says a lot about how she controls her desire as opposed to how her desire controls her.

I really believe that you will be rewarded for your patience. I don't mean expressly by your wife (although it could). I think so much of it depends on how your wife looks a the greater picture. She has learned from her special friends. She has seen other examples. She has had a "regular bull". She's participated in your denial. That's a lot of relatively new influence in her life. She doesn't have a real wealth of knowledge and experience here. I shudder saying she knows enough to be dangerous.

A lot depends on where you and your wife go with this. Your wife may have stronger or different feelings about things now.

A work in progress is exactly what it is. I don't try to sugar coat things as its tough at times, for both of us. She had a lot of emotional stuff happening during the boyfriend and it had her pretty jumbled for a significant period of time. We worked through it, it wasn't easy. For all intents and purposes an outsider were simply label it an affair. Even though it was approved by me, it still had all the elements with extra marital sex, love, time away, emotional pulling toward a lover and away from the marriage. It was tough. Probably more so on her even though she was more or less the one involved and I was a bystander. At times I think an affair would have been less difficult for her. My blessing of things seemed to make it harder on her. I'm not saying it wasn't hard on me-it certainly was. Seeing it run full circle though was a bit of closure. When it was done I walked away like I just quit a job and was not looking back. I didn't carry any baggage away once it was done oddly enough, at least not in the conscious mind. She struggled a bit.

I watched people have a sip at the fountain, no drink for me lol. I think her sexual perspective has re=centered itself. What was once the outer fringe of wild is much closer to center now and what is wild may be off the deep end for most folks I am guessing. As far as her predictability, she is a woman. They are not predictable. With decades of observation I make certain educated guesses. I'm 50/50 on most stuff. Neither of us are super knowledgeable on this lifestyle. We didn't really read the instruction book and our only hands on resource is her hotwife friend who frankly has her own issues and an agenda. At times she is helpful but at others I question if she is really looking out for both of us and our marriage or if she is simply trying to develop my wife into her understudy. My wife definitely knows enough to be dangerous but more accurately someone who is dangerous. I kind of feel like our neighbor friend knowing has been a centering or grounding for us. Hearing someone say "thats friggin crazy" is helpful at times. This is a slippery slope, its like a .......

Not so much the boyfriend era but the bull likely pushed her expectations way up there. Bear in mind he was recommended by our hotwife friend who also played with him regularly. From my wife's stories the man was very well endowed and had stamina for days and a lot of knowledge of pleasing women. In my wife's own words there were times she understood how his own wife was unable to keep up with him as at times she simply couldn't breathe. As her husband I have found myself wondering if I am able to satisfy her after what she has experienced. That weighs on your mind. We just fooled around last weekend for the first time in 8 months. I am going to admit I was not on my A game, nerves, lack of actually doing it, anxiety etc can mess with you. I was not taking her breathe away but I assume we can find a way back to intimacy and I think I can get over my own anxiety. Hell, I need to or she will be flying out to Colorado lol.