Road to Cuckold

[nobodysrage]

Thanks for the advice. But lets go slow here and take an obective non emotional look at it. As I know her 2 years and so my family and her best friends do: She is not a narcist. Not at all. She is very endearing and lovely and never, really never thinks about herself at the first place. She is not manipulative at all. Never. Of course you read the story here about her ex via the internet, but there is nothing in detail you can get to know about her personality etc. At the end she knows she can't get anything from me, even if we merry. I made that point very early.

I look at the matter soberly. She has decided to start a new life with me. She leaves her city. She brings me to the wedding of her best friend. I am with her family on Christmas. Not her ex. There are no romantic chats they have at all. The confirmed its over. I don't make too big a deal about it.
If anything serious happens I will know and react accordingly. But from what I saw it won't and there is nothing I should really worry about.

 

[Lapster]

It is almost impossible to diagnosis with a high degree of certainty a non-celebrity from just a few posts. I will say though that many of the conversations you have relayed lay out exactly what I have seen in other Covert Narcissistic women.

- During the initial phase of your relationship you got lots of "your the greatest" etc. great sex all the time, you really enjoyed this time from your writing.
- Previously she played along with your fantasy, watching porn and discussing it with you and never said a blanket no and even spoke positively sometimes.
- You are at 2 years in your relationship, so you would be on the far side of a fairly long Golden Period, if she is a Narcissist.
- If she is a Narcissist things would be changing at some point within this timeframe and things are changing.
- Now specifically regarding your sexual desire for MFM 3some which she knows is your number 1 sexual fantasy she is saying no.
- She would be lying if she is a Narcissist which she has done multiple times.
- She would have other men hanging around which is happening and she would cheat which you suspect she is doing (I agree with your gut instinct).
- Overall there friction now, where before there was no friction or disagreement and that change in mood is from her behavior not from you.
- Your conversations close to a Narcissistic relationship I was involved in before I knew about Covert Narcissism and why I learned about it.

I have heard nothing about anything you have done that would be cause for her to change her attitude towards you. All of the sudden now there are disagreements, which all center around her behavior, not yours. Have you done anything like seen an old girlfriend, or had lunch with one, or anything? I didn't read anything about you doing anything like that. Let us know if you did something that you shouldn't have done, but right now the only person of the two of you in your relationship that has done things which violated boundaries is her. She continues to violate boundaries of your relationship even after getting called out on them. It doesn't sound like she is even sorry, but regardless even if she has apologized, she continues on to repeat it again. From your recounting of the conversations she seems to feel entitled and is taking you for granted. What I hear and put together from your posts is that you are committed to the relationship and she is expressing indifference, by lying to you, cheating on you probably and triangulating you with these other guys. Narcissists enjoy having this type of interaction which is a form of punishment of you for some perceived failure by being indifferent, making you out to be unreasonable, lying to you, cheating on you, etc. She loves that you are checking up on her.

You don't love this girl, you are addicted to her. This is what Narcissists do, they make you crazy. I mean ask yourself if you really want to be in a relationship, especially a sharing relationship involving MFM 3somes that you are checking up on all the time. How does it feel overall? Is distracting and taking up your focus for you day wondering if she is cheating and trying to figure out how to keep track of her. You have got yourself a Trauma Bond is my suspicion.

She is using your desire for watching her with another man as something she can deny you to control you, then occasionally giving you hope with a slight "Future Fake" of maybe I will do it. This is classic Narcissistic drama, be jealous of me, triangulating you with other men, withhold what you want sexually, that I have seen before. I recommend studying up on the subject so you can keep watching her behavior to see if it continues to fit Narcissistic manipulations and traits.

Probably the biggest things that throw it into the Narcissist column are; 1. You haven't done anything to warrant the change in behavior 2. You don't trust her by your own admission. Do you really want to be in a relationship with a woman you can't trust, especially a sharing relationship which challenges your feelings of security in a relationship. My personal opinion is to get rid of her. You will feel better without her drama and triangulation. Remember for a stand-up guy like you who isn't a cheater having a lousy girlfriend prevents you from finding a good woman who will love and you can trust. They are out there. Take it from an old guy who has enjoyed many great years in the Lifestyle. almost longer than you have been alive. Lifestyle relationships are fantastic IF you have a good partner that is committed to you and trustworthy. That isn't this girl. I don't believe she'll ever do it anyway at this point for the reasons I have outlined. You will continue to be frustrated, she will continue to lie and cheat, be deceptive making you wonder and in the end you will be discarded without any remorse. I say beat her to the punch which will be much better for your dignity and feelings of self-worth that you ended it because she wasn't a good enough woman for you. Which is absolutely true. My mantra is if you don't believe you can trust, you can't so you get rid of them.

 

[Lapster]

I hope you will take this to heart, because I'm on your side even if I'm recommending breaking up with her, which is a place you haven't gotten to yet. Hence, why I wrote my first post, describing the condition and the destructive nature of these relationships. My next post summarized what has gone on in your relationship trying to get you to recognize that her mood has changed without any obvious reasoning plus she is continuously being dishonest. By your own words you are describing your attempt to get her to change back to where your relationship was before (Golden Period) which is the exact Trauma Bond dynamic I mentioned in my first post. You are trying to convince her of how great your relationship was before and that it is her behavior now which is screwing things up, so she needs to change her behavior so you get back to the Golden Period. She doesn't want to go back, but rather is enjoying toying with your emotions with devaluing treatment. My assumption from my analysis of her is that you are firmly in the Sustained Devaluation period. She knows you are upset about this situation which she is enjoying the powerful feelings that treating you badly gives her (pretty fucked I know). Whereas previously in the Golden Period your attention and compliments, etc. were Fuel to her, but now your Fuel is getting boring and stale. Time to mix it up and get some negative Fuel from the feeling of power she gets from emotionally fucking with you. Sounds hard believe, but this is exactly what I think you have going on with her.

I know you had vision of hot MFM with this girl loving and thinking you were perfect, but that was an illusion manufactured by her to ensnare you. The woman in front of you now is almost the real person. The real person doesn't show up until discard phase and they are some ugly people on the inside.

Trust me when I say this I feel your pain, because I was in one of these relationships devoted to her being a nice loving guy, but all the sudden this "Mood Change" showed up in her. I vacillated between frustrated trying not to be angry at her for violations of boundaries and other times trying to convince how great a guy I was trying to get to change her attitude and behavior so we could get back to that fun relationship we had previously. We never went back there and my treatment and her behavior just got worse with an occasional 1 day or even less respite period before I went right back to negative treatment.

This how it works for Narcissists. I have observed this dynamic in other relationships of people I know in the lifestyle and vanilla life after I learned about it. I have dumped quite a few women, quickly these days, when I see the behavior. There are a lot of them out there single. I believe that Narcissists are a larger percentage of the dating pool than they are of the population at large, because Narcissists always end up destroying their relationships every few years so they make a return to dating, whereas the good men and women have a better chance of forming strong long-term relationships so they are removed from the dating pool.

I hope it helps you get to the place you are going to eventually get to, because regardless of what label you give her she isn't a good woman. She lies, she cheats, she Future Fakes you, and I'm almost certain you have more coming and it will be much more painful for regarding your feelings and emotions. When these more painful actions by her occur you will be alone wondering how this wonderful woman could these things to you. I wouldn't be surprised if she cheats on you by having a 3some with 2 other guys, but won't do it with you. That is the kind of things that happen with these horrible people. When finally get to the point of leaving you won't recognize yourself and it will take you some time to get back to yourself. Once you do you wonder how you could allow it to happen to you and why you didn't recognize it earlier.

Good luck to you man.

 

[nobodysrage]

That sound pretty much more tragic than it really is.

I have heard nothing about anything you have done that would be cause for her to change her attitude towards you. All of the sudden now there are disagreements, which all center around her behavior, not yours. Have you done anything like seen an old girlfriend, or had lunch with one, or anything? I didn't read anything about you doing anything like that. Let us know if you did something that you shouldn't have done, but right now the only person of the two of you in your relationship that has done things which violated boundaries is her.

Well I should have mentioned that. I have a great contact with my ex as well. I meet her often. There was a time when she was still after me (Still I was clear for me never to go back). In our first months I fucked a lot of other girls when weren't officially together. There were situations when a neighbor of me called her with another name "You must be Sandy from last Sunday". There were a lot of clues she was aware what was going on. She never raised her voice. We didn't have one single struggle in 2 years. I cant even remember a single thing she didn't accept in that 2 years. Honestly. The relationship is 100 % harmonic.

You don't love this girl, you are addicted to her.

Believe me when I say I am not. I am the one who is in the lead. I could finish it without looking back. I know it might sound arrogant, but I am aware I would have plenty of options.

Anyways I will get into the topic a bit. Thanks for it!

 

[Lapster]

Sounds just like the guy I was before I got involved with my Narcissist. I was very surprised when I turned up with this weird feeling which turned out to be a Trauma Bond. Fortunately have high self-esteem and somewhat lower empathy so I was about to bounce back. I am back to that guy I was before, but much wiser with better understanding of my true value. I don't put up with that treatment anymore. I also can recognize their phony "Golden Period" plays which signals me to put my walls up, plus starting to date other women, and just go along for the ride knowing that soon I will be dumping them when their mood changes.

 

[Lapster]

I did post 2 in a row, so I hope you will read the post right above your last post if you missed it.

 

[nobodysrage]

- If she is a Narcissist things would be changing at some point within this timeframe and things are changing.
- She would have other men hanging around which is happening and she would cheat which you suspect she is doing

Well not really. The realtionship is like it was since then. There is no change in her mood. The contact with her ex was from the beginning. I think she is just not over it. There is no downward spiral. As this happened to me once a lot of years ago: If a women drags me down, I will leave. No matter what.

From what I saw she never cheated on me.

I will observe it all. I am not worried. If she breaks any boundary I will know and turn my back on her.

Still I really think your projection is not right. I made some research about hidden narcists. From what I found out its really not what she is. Her selflessness is not only appearantly. She does not have a pronounced vulnerability. She is not depressive. She is self confident and has high self esteem. She's not looking for approval and she does not manipulate others. She is totally able to take criticism. There is no Passive-aggressive behavior or any devaluation of other people.

 

[Lapster]

I don't have enough information to make an accurate assessment with any confidence level. I will say though your posts included paraphrased conversations that sounded very familiar to me and then the actions you mentioned as well. I just like to make people aware of their type because they are sneaky and vicious.

I hope it works out for you.

 

[majorem]

I'm not sure she's a narcissist - she doesn't appear to be lying to inflate herself. She seems more unable to accept the rejection of being "not good enough" for her ex-boyfriend and continues to visit him seeking to understand why or win him back. She then lies because, deep down, she knows what she is doing is wrong, doesn't want to hurt you and probably feels guilty but can't help herself from continuing to revisit the past. I mean, you paint her to be the perfect person but she obviously has something going on if she's continually seeing an ex and not only lying to you about it but lying to him about you. Honestly, the latter seems more concerning, since it suggests she doesn't want to risk damaging any potential option to get back together with him (although maybe he'd actually be more interested if he knew she was in a relationship).

Ultimately though, it may not matter. You said you only met two years ago and it may be that she just needs a bit more time to sort out the old relationship and move on. If the past relationship was a long-term one, it will probably take a number of years for her to really move on. Getting jealous and angry about it, it probably not going to do you any favors, and you are probably handling things in the best way.

The one thing you might do is just say "Look, I feel pretty certain you have been visiting your ex-boyfriend. If you feel like there are things left unsaid that you need to work through, I'm okay with that as long as you're honest about it. I'll always support you, just please don't lie to me."

 

[Lapster]

Covert Narcissists don't do that behavior of lying to inflate their ego. They lie to manipulate and cheat. Other Narcissist types do lie to inflate.

 

[nobodysrage]

Here is the update, finally it happened!

At first: The chapter with her ex is closed. She told him about me and she left her home town. She still had feelings for her ex but now is moving forward. There is nothing more to say about that.

Yesterday was the day! We were at a privately organized swingers party. The vibe was good so were the drinks.
At the beginning she told me several times that she wants to see how I fuck another woman.

1-2 hours later we ended up on the playground. A guy came over - she said didn't like him. We both gave her a massage. He could do it extremely well and made her relaxed and aroused. Anyway, he massaged her then quickly also around her pussy. He pulled out a condom and then fucked her hard. There was no more resistance due to the massage. She enjoyed it and gave me a blowjob and kissed me looking into my eyes. He came into the condom inside of her.

He then handed over to another guy. She told me before that he was attractive. He revealed his cock. It was huge. I guess 20 cm and extremely thick. He pulled a condom over it and fucked her very hard as well. She had occasional pains because he was so big. She then wanted me to have a sandwich fuck. We tried that, but we couldn't both get it in our holes at the same time They view was the best I have ever seen!

After another break we changed the room. I saw a very pretty girl. Sje liked me the whole night already. After her having sex with the same 2 guys I put out a condom and fucked her as well. She was squirting having a great orgasm. My girlfriend loved to watch me fucking her. And the incredible thing: The boyfriend of that girl started to fuck my girl as well. Even though she said this guide is not her type at all. She massaged her clit when he fucked her a screamed when she had an orgsam.

I am so happy about that. Yet she was not too euphoric after the night and didn't talk to much about it. When I asked her about what she liked the most she said it was having sex with me when others could watch. Second best she liked watching me fucking another girl. As I missed that smile on her face n the way home I am not sure if she is more greedy now or if thats just it after having tried. It was a bit strange. I will about you.

 

[majorem]

I am so happy about that. Yet she was not too euphoric after the night and didn't talk to much about it. When I asked her about what she liked the most she said it was having sex with me when others could watch. Second best she liked watching me fucking another girl. As I missed that smile on her face n the way home I am not sure if she is more greedy now or if thats just it after having tried. It was a bit strange. I will about you.

Wow, that's super hot - I wish I could experience something like that with my wife but we don't seem to have any good clubs around here and it is impossible to do currently on vacation with kids.

It sounds like your girlfriend is probably suffering from a little guilt or shame and just needs positive support to build good feelings about what happened and to be receptive to future experiences.

Also, that's awesome things seem to be resolved with the ex and your relationship has improved.

 

[nobodysrage]

Update: In September we will me a couple we met before. Last time we agreed to go to a hotel but at the very last moment we didnt. The guy was really not attractive as I can judge. She got easy on that.
Lets see. When I fucked another girl she didnt say afterwards it turned her on so much even though thats her fantasy. At the same time she got easy on other guys.

 

[nobodysrage]

Small update after she fucked three guys a night.

We used the app Spicer to find out our kinks. Its like Tinder for matching interests.

She likes:

• 3Somes, 4somes
• she wants to try to fuck me. She asked me if I want to have a men play with me during our threesome. She asked that out of curiosity
• me in female clothes
  Yet she didn't like domination, chastity, cuckolding, threesom with a trans or anything similar

She didn't give a like for:

• Being dominant
• Feeding me cum
• Chastity
• Cuckolding
• Shemales
• other kinky stuff

Not the best result. But know she wants a honest conversation me admitting everything. She wants to try a lot of stuff then. She wants to start with a dildo on me now. An a few days we will finally have that conversation. I will make sure that I will focus on her wishes

Also we will meet that couple this week we nearly had sex with already. I will keep you updated about the conversation and about the other couple we that we visit in their place.

 

[nobodysrage]

Finally we has that conversation. She knows about chastity, creampie cleanups etc.
She says maybe she wants to try with single men. Not sure. And wee will buy a chastity cage, we could try.
Lets see if she likes it.

 

[nobodysrage]

We bought a few chastity devices. She said she loves it. She is really heavily onto that idea, after we chatted with another cuckold couple. The idea of having control, getting free massages etc. She was asking of I am able to wear it permanently. Let's see.
Also we bought a strap on. I can fuck her while being caged and she can calso milk my semen with the dildo.

Unexpected progress. I will update

 

[nobodysrage]

She got fucked again:
We fucked with another couple from online dating. She was enjoying to be fucked by a huge dick.

Permanent chastity:
Now she wants to keep me in chastity permanently. She enjoys me being horny all the time and all the massages.

Resistance and afraid:
She is afraid of meeting somebody. Meeting a couple and chatting with drinks is always fine. Different story with solo men. When we had sex with that couple recently she first said the guy is ugly - "no way!". After a lot of drinks and being tipsy he fucker her hard.
We dated our first guy. He was smart, nice dressed and I knew: 100% her type. But she always finds reasons not to do - especially with solo men.

How to make her greedy?
I don't know if she is just afraid. At the end I respect that. Yet I would love to know how to bring out her hornyness and greed. Any ideas?

 

[CONST65]

1) Surveillance idea: Hard to get that proof. Well should be only when reading her chats "by mistake". But confronting her with evidence will require me to admit I took her under surveillance Thats a problem.


So true. Instead of proofing she is cheating (and I now am pretty sure) I could do

2) Talk openly idea: I could bring it up with 100% honesty ad put all cards on the table. She should know I would love her to fuck around and let me know. But you are so right:
a) Its hard to her to admit she wants to be a real slut. And it complicated and uncomfortable having those discussions with me. And risky. She could lose me. Or when we split I might tell everything to my or her friends...
b) It would be again pushing her. There was some rejection regarding men, MFM and our next visits in the club as I told before. There was a lot effort to open her up.

She is rejecting being open and pulls back. But fucks around behind my back. It makes me mad. Not sure which strategy can bring me anywhere. I should probably apply both.

You both need total.open communication total.honesrty if you dont it wll.not work.amd cause more problems

 

[nobodysrage]

This is solved. We have a 100% open communication now.

 

[CONST65]

This is solved. We have a 100% open communication now.

Thats great feel.free to ask me anything since we started this it has been rewarding for both of us she gets to.play and our sex life has gotten even bettrg4